Why We Need Meat

Great article, good to see Mr. Sisson writing a guest post here on your blog, Rusty. I am glad that you refer to the Daily Apple site every once in a while, because it has been a wealth of information to me over the past week and a half (that's when I first read about it here!). Mark is in excellent condition, and has a lot of knowledge and research to back up his claims. I told my wife that when I am 50, I want to look like Mark. She said "Jeeze, I want to look like him now!"

Thanks for the heads up on Mark's Daily Apple Rusty and thanks for a great article Mark. I don't think I could ever go vegetarian and I'm almost positive I couldn't be a vegan. I just love my meats too much. I eat chicken or turkey 4 times a week at least. Mark's Daily Apple has been added to my RSS reader and I look forward to reading, commenting and participating.

illuminating report, I always thought veg diets are too restricting not as good as they claim.

have you seen the Dark Knight? I hear that movie was an epic… especially heath ledger's performance.

I really hope this film will sink The Titanic at box office records ( yeah.. pun intended)

Cheers

As a lady living in Seattle, thanks for posting this! I was a vegetarian for 2 years, then vegan for about a year. I did it the "proper" way with as much protein as I could manage and the least amount of processed foods. Toward the end of this time I had almost no energy unless I had lots of carbs, so I never got results and physically felt awful. Going back to eating meat is one of the best decisions I ever made for my health.

i am leaning more and more towards paleo, anabolic style, or nhe eating…i just have to dial it in for great results…have you ever read nhe?

this guy makes devany look like the pilsbury dough boy

great post again rusty. i'm on my way over to the daily apple now to subscribe after reading a few of his articles. you guys that run blogs like this do a great deal to help each other and i like that you guys refer people to each other so reach their fitness goals.

on another note, the dark knight really was AMAZING. i saw it last night and i'm probably going again.

Yash

hey rusty, i noticed you changed your site so that when you click on an external link it pops up as a different window rather than navigating away from the FBB. its so much better!

Excellent article, i'm in the best shape ever since i've cutted carbs and eat a high protein diet, along with fruits and veggies. I've recently discovered Mark's blog and it's really good, you did really well in letting your readers know about it Rusty.

Yeah, Mark rules. Just added to my RSS feed too. I have to second everything above. His site kicks ass and brings some common sense to a world of misinformation. Primal is the way to go.

Thanks for another great post Rusty! I also love Mark's site so this was quite inspiring. I've been down the vegetarian/vegan path, and it worked great when I was doing triathlons, but I found that once I stopped my body needed less carbs & a lot more protein/fat. Not to mention I was eating tons of processed vegan junk food like tofurkey and soy ice cream. I think that's the reason why most vegans have the "skinny fat" look, they think that just because it's labeled as vegan that it's healthy. Just take a look at some of the ingredient lists of vegan products next time you're in a place like Whole Foods…it's incredible!

Although I do have to mention that there are some successful vegan bodybuilders (check out http://www.veganbodybuilding.com for some info), who have done some amazing feats. Most will not be as big as meat eaters, but that isn't such a bad thing when you consider that we just want to have the "hollywood" look, right? I think that in the end, as long as you eat whole, unprocessed food as much as possible, you will be fine…just common sense!

Full disclosure – I'm a vegan for ethical reasons. And while I agree that veganism (or vegetarianism) is definitely NOT paleo and therefore not the best plan for optimum health, but a lack of protein is definitely NOT the reason.

For one thing, Mark seems to think that Dr. McDougall's program is typical of veganism – it is not. The failings of his program aren't an indictment of veganism at all.

Now, on to the notion that you need 150 grams of protein daily. Here's Rusty in 2007:

Conversely, the body has the ability to maintain or gain muscle off of a relatively low daily protein intake. The timing of meal is a HUGE variable as well. Did you know your body will absorb and more protein if you ingest it within 30 minutes of your workout. 30g of protein consumed right after exercise would utilize almost the same amount of protein as 60g protein consumed five hours later!

http://fitnessblackbook.com/the-protein-book/

So which is it? Do we NEED 150 gram of protein a day to be optimally fit? Or is the truth that if we pay attention to when, what, and how we eat our protein requirements are actually much smaller?

I forgot to mention a few things, and I think I may have screwed up the formatting of the page with that link, so Rusty, remove it if that's the case.

I think it's been pretty conclusively demonstrated that a vegan diet can be very healthy (though maybe not "optimum"), particularly when it's combined with a focus on paleo foods. But I do think there are legitimate questions about whether veganism is the best choice for optimum health, but again, not because of protein intake! That Mark would even suggest such a thing makes me think he knows very little about veganism. Probably the things I worry about missing most are B12 and the stuff in fish oil. I'm hoping that someday I can raise my own chickens (or maybe just one as a pet) and follow an ovo-vegan diet, which in my mind would be the perfect balance of ethics and health.

If you still don't think it's possible to be very functionally fit and healthy on a vegan diet, take a look:

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bios

It's too bad this came after Rusty's cut down on the commenting, I'm really hoping either Mark or Rusty will respond to this as it seems to be a pretty major divergence in their thinking (the protein intake thing I mean).

Good post Rusty,

Both the wife and I eat mainly lean chicken breast and tuna as our main soruce of meat, however, recently we started ocasionally eating Kangaroo steaks instead of other red meat such as beef pr lamb.

We love it in 'home made' healtyh curries and stews etc and it is good as far as sustainability for the environment compared to beef or lanb. I lot of non-aussie readers of your blog may be surprised to learn that our beloved national symbol the Kangaroo is somewhat of a pest in many parts of the country due to their overwhelming numbers and lack of feed due to lack of water etc. So by eating 'Roo we are helping ourselves in more ways than one

Cheers

Hulbs

3ller i watched the dark knight yesterday opening day it was great i recommend it. Great post

Rusty you are just amazing man! Thank you for this. I live and train in LA and the raw food movement has so much propaganda based dogma going I meet people who have given themselves food phobias almost each day. thank you fro printing some sanity from MArk. May I copy and share it with friends on Myspace and Facebook? with proper credits and so forth.

Cheers!

The Q

Alvaro,

Good comment. Went to that vegan BB site and looked at about 10 profiles. Every single one of them converted to veganism fairly recently. That means that they spent their entire formative years eating meat/chicken/fish to give them a huge head start. This is how most vegans and vegetarians develop. Show me a couple of body-builders who have never eaten meat in their lives (and/or have never used protein powders with whey, egg, casein, and other animal sources, etc) and then we can talk about the effectiveness of a vegan diet in building mass. As for vegan sources of protein, if you figure that veggies and fruits alone can't provide enough protein to build or sustain mass for long, you are left with legumes (soy, peanuts, limas, etc, to which humans never fully adapted) or grains (which I hope I never consume in any appreciable quantities again). At its strictest levels, my Primal Blueprint diet recommends avoiding both. I note that many of the vegan BBs take creatine. Creatine is found in meat – not vegetables, so basically they are looking for something in meat that is missing from their diet? You also have noted that you miss the B12 and the extremely important Omega3s that are found in meat and fish and that you want to raise you own chickens. Does that mean that you also agree that veganism is too extreme. Not trying to give you grief, Alvaro…just trying to understand your position.

On my site you asked about the high amount of protein I espouse. Great question. The idea in a low carb diet is to get plenty of healthy veggies and fruits as the main source of carb/glucose. Then, be sure to cover your basic needs for protein (which is, admittedly, far less than I espouse). But the difference is that we use the extra protein as a source of needed calories (when you cut carbs, you cut energy) and as a reserve source of glucose (especially when you cut carbs to under 100 grams a day, as I do some days). That means that the body can convert the extra protein to glucose through gluconeogenesis (burning fat to do so) without having to resort to tearing down hard-earned muscle tissue as happens frequently in, say, endurance training.

Hope that answers your question. Great site, Rusty. Saw Dark Knight last night, 3ller. Kicked ass.

PS. Neglected to say that we use fats as the main source of energy in the PB plan.

The Q, before you go to all that trouble you might take note that Rusty seems to disagree with the central premise of the Mark's article, namely that vegan/vegetarian diets are undesirable because they can't easily provide 150 grams of protein a day.

I was doing a little reading about the Maasai, one of the most frequently studied very healthful aboriginal diets, which I assume figures into Mark's "average" paleo diet. From Wikipedia entry on the Maasai:

-Meat, although an important food, is consumed irregularly and cannot be classified as a staple food.-

Mark:

-And protein for these folks meant mostly meat.-

Really?

And lastly I'll say that I'm not sure that going for the average aboriginal diet is the right course for optimum health – what we know most about paleo diets is that they were hugely varied, which means that our digestive systems evolved in very different circumstances. My guess is that some paleo diets were healthier than others (although all of them much healthier than our modern diet), so aiming for the center might not be optimum.

yeah but unfortunately there are no theaters showing the film in my small country(only 2 theaters…… that small) . I'm willing to wait as long as till December when the Dvd is supposed to be released. I want to watch where the video quality is as good as the film itself. Not a crappy CAM version.

Mark Sisson == awesomeness

Keep up the great work Rusty

Mark, thanks so much for responding! I'm glad we're getting into the weeds with this one, because it's a really interesting and important discussion! First of all, you seem to be changing your argument – in your original post you made the strong claim:

-we need meat for optimum health-,

But now you're backpedaling to the weaker claim that a vegan diet isn't effective in building mass. As you well know, building mass is NOT the focus of Rusty's site (I didn't think it was the focus of yours, either). While I agree with you that a certain amount of lean muscle mass is definitely a huge part of optimum health, again, I don't think you've demonstrated that it's impossible to get there on a vegan diet. Certainly you'll agree that "building mass" and "optimum health" aren't synonymous?

So I didn't link to that site to prove you could build tons of mass on a vegan diet (although I think it's pretty clear you can), I did it to prove that you can be VERY fit (even optimally fit) on a vegan diet. You'll notice that not all the people on that site are bodybuilders (maybe this is why you're focusing on mass?) – if you scroll down there's athletes and normal folks too. It's interesting to me that people from such different fitness backgrounds find veganism so healthful.

-Show me a couple of body-builders who have never eaten meat in their lives (and/or have never used protein powders with whey, egg, casein, and other animal sources, etc) and then we can talk about the effectiveness of a vegan diet in building mass.-

I'm sorry, but I have a feeling that you know this is ridiculous to ask of me – anyone who was breastfed, for example, would be automatically excluded. But that's not really the point, is it? Isn't this discussion about whether one can live on a vegan diet in an optimally healthy way? To say veganism is bad because there are no bodybuilders who have been vegan since birth makes no sense – is the primal diet bad because almost nobody in the Western world has been following it since birth? I think it's pretty easy to see where the logic breaks down. You're 100% correct – for the vast majority of vegans, their lifestyle is a conscious (and relatively recent, as most vegans are young) change. But why does this invalidate it as a healthy living style?

And anyway, I don't which ten profiles you looked at but there are a lot of people on there whose health (again, not so sure why your focused on mass) has radically improved since becoming vegan. For example:

-One popular wrong notion is that vegans are frail and skinny. *laughs* My power has increased since becoming vegan, especially my endurance, and I almost never get ill anymore.-
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bio_alex

So is he just lying?

Let's assume for a minute that your weak claim (you can't build mass on a vegan diet) is true (again, I don't agree with this, but for the sake of argument let's pretend). Even if that were true, how does that translate into "we need meat for optimum health"? If, as you seem think, all of these bodybuilders built up their mass and THEN went vegan, they certainly seem to be maintaining their health. So tell me again how a vegan diet is incompatible with optimum health?

As to your creatine point, as I'm sure you're aware there's a lot of controversy about creatine and just because some vegans use it doesn't mean it's an indictment of all veganism. This is the same thing you did with Dr. McDougall – it seems you think that veganism is one massive, homogeneous lifestyle. Nothing could be farther from the truth!

-Does that mean that you also agree that veganism is too extreme.-

I thought I was pretty clear about this, but I'll reiterate my thinking. I think it's possible to be EXTREMELY fit on a vegan diet. Now I think it's debatable whether or not vegan fitness can be truly optimum – but my quarrel with you is that low protein intake is NOT the reason! As I said, I think omega-3s and B12 are the two most serious deficiencies. If you had written a post about omega-3s and B12, then I would have been like "yeah, that's a problem for vegans." But when both of these supplements are available in 100% vegan form, their absence from plant foods doesn't mean a vegan can't be optimally healthy. Now, I'm not a fan of supplements (hence the hankering to raise chickens), but there's no reason a vegan on these supplements couldn't be optimally fit, again undermining your strong claim.

-As for vegan sources of protein, if you figure that veggies and fruits alone can't provide enough protein to build or sustain mass for long, you are left with legumes (soy, peanuts, limas, etc, to which humans never fully adapted) or grains (which I hope I never consume in any appreciable quantities again).-

Can you spot what's missing? I can, and it's definitely paleo and my biggest source of protein – TREE NUTS (hooray!)! Do you not eat any nuts? Why not? Nuts and berries are pretty much as paleo as you can get.

You seemed to have sidestepped my central argument about protein intake – do you disagree with Rusty's post I linked to, wherein he supports the idea that a relatively small amount of protein is required? Again, this is the main point, it seems to reveal a major divergence between you and Rusty, so I'd really love you to respond (and thanks again for your first comment!).

The truth is a lot of people hide behind health claims because they like meat and understand how horrible its implications are (ethically, environmentally).

Also, Dark Knight was great. When Ledger does the disappearing pencil trick you could just feel everyone it the audience take a sharp breath in thinking "holy crap this is gonna be crazy!"

Alavaro, Maasai are not hunter/gatherers – they are "semi-nomadic pastoralists." I didn't cite the Maasai diet at all, but now that you mention it, the first line of the passage that you omitted from your quote is: "Traditionally, the Maasai diet consisted of meat, milk, and blood from cattle." That's about as high protein (and high fat) a diet from animal meat as you can get.

The article basically goes on to say "Today, the staple diet of the Maasai consists of cow's milk and maize-meal…" The implication is that they began incorporating grains into their diet fairly recently (since they had no grains in their diet until Western encroachment ). Probably had no choice in the matter, since disease killed off much of their herds in the late 20th century, and grazing lands have been eradicated by civilization, etc.

I have always felt this way but as Mark said, it is not politically correct to say so (especially in SoCal, where I am from as well). I did not grow up vegan/vegetarian but I tried it for 40 days in my teens and it was anything but pleasant. I never knew I would miss it so much. The first few weeks went fine but around midway, I started feeling extremely dizzy and missed my period. Even though I was downing several glasses worth of spinach juice, I was still severely anemic. I did lose 12 pounds but most of it was lean tissue as my jeans fit me exactly the same .

All in all, it was not a good experience. Being vegetarian is too much work: it takes lots of planning to make sure that we are getting the same amount of nutrients (especially iron for women) and protein as we would from meat.

-Lorna

I'm so glad that i'm not a vegan anymore, it's not even funny. Following Mark's food plan i'm healthier than ever; meat is not the enemy!

nice info – this is coming from a fully fledged vegan of 3 years
its good hearing both sides of the coin
I get mad at vegans who try to force non vegs' into it by giving stats, studies and so on
everybody is entitled to their own opinions and experiences
don't let somebody else's opinion become your own
thats all i have to say
different people, different circumstances, different nutritional necessities… or maybe not… who knows

-I get mad at vegans who try to force non vegs' into it by giving stats, studies and so on-

But when it comes from the other side it doesn't bother you? It seems like if you just switch "non veg" with "veg," that's exactly what Mark's doing.

And Mark, unfortunately you didn't respond to my central point, mainly that you seem to disagree with Rusty about optimal protein intake. And all my other points, save for the one about the Maasai.

The reason I brought up the Maasai was because I'm pretty much grasping at straws – not only do you not cite the Maasai, you don't cite anything at all. Where are you getting your numbers about 1/3 of the diet being animal-based protein etc? Thanks again

Mark,

Thanks for answering the comments. I knew this was going to be a conversation starter. You got the conversation rolling big-time on this one. I love it!

Alvaro,

Mark and I just have slightly different approaches. He eats less carbs than me most of the time and therefore eats a slightly larger amount of protein. On a lower carb diet you need to insure that muscle doesn't get broken down. A high enough protein intake assures this won't happen. Mark explains this in his comment above.

When I need to drop a few pounds quickly, I eat almost exactly what Mark prescribes. It is a great way to burn that last bit of body fat (it is probably the biggest reason Mark looks ripped year round)…maybe I should consider eating this way more often…just a thought. To be honest, his intake of 1 gram per day per pound of lean mass, isn't really that excessive. I have heard people in the fitness industry recommend 1.5-2.0 grams per lean body mass per day!

Keep the comments constructive I want Mark to guest post at some point in the future, because he is an outstanding health and fitness author. One of the best on the web. I do appreciate the well-thought out comments that you have been delivering…just make sure they keep a friendly tone.

John,

Devany looks pretty impressive as well, but you have to remember that Mark was a triathlete. Just finishing the Ironman triathlon is insane!

Yash,

Very few blogs are "lifestyle" fitness blogs like Mark's site and this site. What I mean by "lifestyle" fitness blog, is that we believe in incorporating fitness into a well-balanced and healthy life (while looking great). Mark travels, he has a family, he runs a great site, drinks beer, gets outdoors a lot, etc…He looks great, but doesn't live in the gym to accomplish this.

I'm the same way. I go to concerts, parties, camping trips, travel to exotic places, have a demanding job, while running this site for fun. I stay in good shape, but don't sacrifice everything else to get there.

What I first started this site I used to get funny comments like…"you must hang around fat people because you aren't ripped"…they would then try and tear apart my picture telling me what I needed to work on.

I just had to laugh, because being "ripped beyond belief" isn't my goal at all. I want to enjoy life, while being fit. I could spend 3-4 weeks "prepping" for a photo shoot and measuring my food, hitting the gym 5-6 times per week…weighing myself every few days, measuring my body fat non-stop, counting every calorie, etc…but that would suck! What kind of existence is that?

The whole mantra of my site is "get fit in the context of a fun and exciting life". I know there are people out there with sharper abs, better shoulders, better symmetry, etc. I just want to have fun while doing what it takes to maintain a slim "Hollywood" look.

Sorry to go off on a tangent Yash…the reason I dig Mark's blog is because he has a very similar outlook on fitness. Some of his methods are slightly different, but the goal is the same. Both of us really appreciate our readers, so we do our best to point them to other sources that we find worthwhile. Thanks for being a consistent reader

Q,

Please send this to your friends, just make sure you leave a link to Mark's site in the article. We enjoy reaching new readers…it makes this fun to know that it is being exposed to a wider audience. Oh yeah…give them a link to my blog. I promise I will entertain them!

Rey,

Well put. I like it that Mark at least gave it a shot. It shows he is open to different points of view.

3ller,

I saw Batman at 12:00AM last night in Seattle's best theater downtown…Cinerama (a theater that Paul Allen invested a lot of money into about 10 years ago). It is OUTSTANDING! I hope it shatters all of the box office records.

Rusty

LOL! I love it… One post is based on one persons eating 'ethics', and a couple of posts later another guy is talking about loving kangaroo steaks! HA HA… Fun stuff here Rusty!

GarthFader,

Hulbs has become one of my Australian connections. When I take my girlfriend to Australia…I'm going to eat a Kangaroo Steak and drink a large beer with Hulbs and his wife. Then its off to Bondi Beach! Hulbs says it has the best sand in Australia…or something like that!

Lol!

Can't wait Rusty! The beer will be ice cold and the 'Roo piping hot off the Barbie!

P.s. GarthFader,

Plenty of 'Roos to go around in this part of the world so I don't have an ethical problem in eating a few of them!

to alavaro,

who says eating meat isn't for ethical reasons too!! Being Half Native American, and coming from a Native American background I would know.

Native American Tribes from North America knew Animal was of the highest value for food. Some tribes would go as far as to eat almost no vegitation out of respect to the animals. I grew up hunting elk in colorado, and to me, you can't get more natural than seeing an animal graze. I understand not everyone can go hunting, but people can choose grass fed if there is the option. If there isn't an option for grass fed, organic, or natural…i think your still better of eating some kind of meat. If you have access to Grass fed organic organ meats, consider yourself really lucky!

As for eating meat for ethical reasons? Animals can graze more areas of land where you can't farm. People can't synthisize alot of vitamins and minerals frome plants. Humans can't digest fiber or cellulose, but an animal with a rumin can(buffalo, goat, sheep, cattle..etc) and they turn grass and plants goodness into fat soluable vitamins for us. It takes alot of energy to run a agri based farm, for that matter a little organic berrie farm, but you can let a animal just graze like its meant to, thats easy. If you are allergic to plant chemicals, let the animal eat the plants and take care of it for you. Respect animals, and they will provide, weather you use them for milk, eggs, or meat.

And marks right…to get the same amount of nutrition from veggies, fruits, or legumes as you can get from a steak is impossible. Have fun filling bloated the rest of your life…and hungry. Animal fat is very important, and native americans knew this…they thrived on it.

I will leave you with some quotes.

You ask me to plow the ground, Shall I take a knife and tear my mothers's bosom. Then when I die she will not take me to her bosom to rest.
You ask me to dig for stones! Shall I dig under her skin for her bones? Then when I die I cannot enter her body to be born again.
You ask me to cut grass and make hay and sell it, and be rich like white men, but how dare I cut my mother's hair?
I want my people to stay with me here. All the dead men will come to life again. Their spirits will come to their bodies again. We must wait here in the homes of our fathers and be ready to meet them in the bosom of our mother.
Wovoka
Paiute

My young men shall never farm. Men who work the soil cannot dream, and wisdom comes to us in dreams.
Wowoka

I love the land and the buffalo and will not part with it. . . .
I want the children raised as I was. . . I don't want to settle. I love to roam over the prairies. There I feel free and happy, but when we settle down we grow pale and die.
Satanta
Kiowa Chief

You must speak straight so that your words may go as sunlight into our hearts.
Cochise
Chiriacahua Chief

If you are a vegan for ethical reasons, then so be it, but think about it… Lets keep on over farming land, producing more grain for animals and third world countries. Lets not forget that its the animals manure they use for ogranic crops…manure from a grassfed animal is superior to the toxic manure of a grain fed animal, and its easier if you let the animal graze and refertilize at the same time…it keeps making more since?

Thanks for the great info Rusty and Mark! Keep up the good work!

Wow lots of comments still. Thanks for the article, a few weeks ago you mentioned Mark's website and I go there as often as I come here (about once a day). So I say thanks for that. THe other one, I forgot Evangeline Lilly was so hot, man how am I going to get her lovely face out of my mind now?!

Troy Crowley, i just loved this one:
"My young men shall never farm. Men who work the soil cannot dream, and wisdom comes to us in dreams."
Wowoka

That's what i believe, adapted to our days, and to all areas of Life

When thinking about the correct combination of protein, fat and carbohydrate I like to consider the egg. Inside the egg is everything needed to build a chick and maintain that chick while it is under construction. It must be quite a workout for the cells constructing such a complex organism from goop. So how much carbohydrate is there in an egg to fuel this process? Well under 3% of the total. It would appear that serious body building requires a lot of fat and protein and very few carbs.

ya rusty i agree with u, meat of some form is more or less essential to building lean muscle, and also promotes fat loss since you are getting almost pure protein (with lean meats) and less fat and carbs than you would get in vegan products. Even protein powders are usually derived from milk or some other source that strict vegans wouldn't touch. One quick q tho, didn't know where else to put it. As a teenage ectomorph who has gotten the level of musculature that I want, I am now on a mantain program but I am wondering if I should leave in cardio to say super sharp? Or will cardio eat away at the muscle? I currently do 15 min 3 times a week, I figure that's the least I can do not only to stay sharp but more importantly to keep lungs, heart etc healthy. What do you think bro?

WOW he looks great!!! Hard to believe he's in his 50's with that body! (:

Ahhh….wonderful guest post! If I could get all my clients to eat like this (which is exactly how I eat), they would look amazing and make progress so much faster!!

This post just helped me to feel that I am making the right choices by avoiding the carbs and eating higher, healthier fats!

(Shout out to Rusty! Sorry I been away so long, extremely busy, as I see you have been also! Hope all is well!)

What I will add is this: I am a vegetarian (with a desire, for ethical and environmental reasons, to one day go vegan), and if the above claims are true – that one must kill something in order to exist at an optimum level of health – then I will settle for living slightly below said level.

Rusty, thank you for the time that you give to this site.

Rusty, I need your help. I didn't see any other way to contact you but through leaving comments. Sorry about the long post but I want to give you a little background:

I'm a recovering bodybuilder, by saying that I mean that I've seen the light about bodybuilding training and how it can do more harm than good to your body. I've been bodybuilding for the last 5 years and this summer I had some type of injury that has limited my ability to even walk. The doctor said I had a ruptured disc along with sciatica, which effects both legs causing intense pain. The only way I could have sustained this type of injury is from heavy squatting and deadlifting that I was doing. I believe I've created some type of either muscle or lower back imbalance that finally did some intense but hopefully not permanent damage.

Anyway I'm so glad I ran across your site, I'm recovering from my injury currently but I really want to change my training habits from this bodybuilding type training to an athletic one like you describe. I've spent years eating enormous amounts of food and pumping up my muscles in hopes of achieving what I saw in the magazines. This injury was a huge wake up call and I don't even look like the same person I was 5 years ago. I really regret this now because looking at some old pictures before I started doing bodybuilding I looked so much better, even doing modeling part-time.

I just wanted to ask what do I do to reverse this type of look for my body? I've read several posts of yours but what do you feel is the key components of your philosophy on training? Mainly with weight training, diet, and cardio which I need to do a ton of to get most of this weight off!!!!

Thanks Rusty for your site!!

Hey James,

Not sure if you've already seen it on this site, but, you should also probably take a look at Rusty's suggestion for strengthening your lower back/core.
It's in a post where Rusty describes his own back problems.
http://fitnessblackbook.com/…while-getting-fit/
I know this doesn't address your request, but may be a bit helpful.
I'm hoping to get my Dad to start incorporating those exercises into his day, since he's had a lot of lower back problems too, including a surgery, which actually made matters MUCH MUCH worse (Yay canadian health system!).

This artile was very educational, I was a vegan for like 5 years I became a "skinny fat", took up that fad diet after I had my first baby. Started at 130 lbs and only because I had attended a Adventist curch and a few people there said that being a vegan was better and healthier, yeah right! I got down to 115 lbs., yuk had no muscles. My friends were asking me if I was taking drugs or if I was sick? Prob. cause I look unhealthy.
Now that I have three children I need to eat healthy. I can't imagine not eating meat. I will never go back, ever.!I know from experience what eating protien does to my body and my health.
All this information inspires me, I love the information I read here, so many people think they know everything and don't even realize their misleading people. I like advice from people who have experience and knowledge, that's what makes me keep on reading.
Right now I am fat, cause I overate on carbs, kept loading up on sugar I just couldn't control myself, but in not time will loose everything and will be looking hot again, just like Jennifer Nicole Lee. Which also eats meat, not soy or tofu, but real meat, and is a mother of two.

Hey Rusty.
Just discovered your site here, and wow, what a wealthy of information!
Mark's estimation of having a higher protein diet is right on the money, I used to be close to 300 lbs, and now I'm around 225, and it's only been recently that I've started a rigorous exercise regimen.
Until 3 weeks ago it was purely a revolution in my eating habits, and that included massive reduction in carbs (not completely, but reduced to whole grains and only in small amounts) and a massive increase in protein, be it beef, chicken, fish, turkey, etc., and an increase in ark green vegetable consumption.

A companion piece to Mark's writing here would be your piece about how important a solid diet in comparison to being highly active. (another great piece, i might add)

Thanks for the great info!

I'm with Allan on this one. For ethical reasons, I have a strict vegetarian, mostly vegan diet and have done so for the past 7 years. I've never had any problems with energy level, building muscle (when I've tried), or attaining a lean physique. I'm certain I would look slightly better or have more ease in achieving fitness goals if I weren't vegetarian, but hey, in the past few years I've run a marathon and taken up BJJ / MMA training. So if that isn't optimal fitness, then sub-optimal is fine with me.

I'm a big fan of fighter Mac Danzig, who's been vegan for the past 4 years, and I doubt anyone can impugn his level of fitness.

Spanish triathlete Ovo-lacto-vegetarian Eneko Llanos.

El menor de los hermanos Llanos, campeón del mundo de triatlón de larga distancia en Ibiza 2003 y olímpico en Sydney 2000 y Atenas 2004, primer español que gana el mítico Ironman de Lanzarote Canarias considerada por los especialistas como una de las pruebas de triatlón más duras del mundo(2007), y este año (2008) ha acabado segundo en el de Hawai tras Craig Alexander. "Ya me queda menos para llegar a la cima".

Entrevista tras su segundo puesto en el Campeonato del mundo de Ironman en Hawai:

¿Es un problema ser vegetariano como tú en un deporte tan exigente?

No. Aún existe la idea de que la dieta vegetariana es incompleta, pero yo no lo creo para nada. Soy ovo-lácteo-vegetariano desde hace 13 años y no creo que mi dieta tenga ninguna carencia.

Meat is not necesary.

Good article, but i suggest you look more into vegan sources of protein, as it is easily possible to get 1-1.5g per pound of body weight in your diet daily with tempeh, lentils, chick peas, nuts etc. as long as you down rely on just one source. Then if you're vegetarian and add in milk and eggs, it makes everything a whole lot easier again!

Our whole digestive system represents that of a herbivore. Humans are omnivores, in that we can eat meat. But meat is not needed in our diet, the only nutrient lacking in a completely vegan diet is vitamin B12 which primates get from eating things like termites. In a vegetarian diet this can be satisfied by milk or eggs (I'm pretty sure eggs have B12, but I'm not sure).

and as for the unhealthy vegans… look at Mike Mahler maybe? haha. (the fact that he's one of the worlds leading kettlebell instructors has nothing to do with it )

Great article. people who object to meat eating because they object to hunting or animal slaughter are really much too pampered and effete for their own good. It's not pleasant . . . and personally I object to hunting as "sport" unless you're in the water armed with a knife hunting sharks or hunting lions and tigers with a spear.
But we've been meat eaters for thousands of years. Any tribe member too weak to kill an animal would have culled from the tribe early in life.

Daniel, to say "meat is not needed in our diet" is ridiculous. WATER isn't needed either since I suppose we could drink beer and wine and survive. But just because we can adopt some kooky life style doesn't mean we should. A man living outdoors who needs 3000 cal/day would have to eat over 30 apples to get it . . . and would still get insufficient nutrients. Yeah, you can pick and choose various types of plant life and seeds . . . given a good understanding of modern nutrition. But to suggest that early man did that instead of simply consuming what animals were handy . . . is preposterous.
Besides . . . I suspect that too many "vegans" are really living out what can AT BEST be described as a very "liberal" lifestyle which is more about politics than sound nutrition.

Hi Rusty
I've found your blog very inspiring but this post discouraged me.
Well if this is true so be it, but I doubt that it will result in vegetarians (who wants to be fit and healthy) to reconsider. We've already sacrificed certain pleasures (atleast i have cause i used to love meat) cause we believe in something (it's true, not everybody is in it for the "trend") and I think that most of us value our beliefs far more than reaching 6 % in bodyfat, but that doesn't make physical appearence unimportant.
I agree that many have the misconception that being vegetarian = healthy, but why dont write an article how vegetarians can make the most of it and encourage vegetarians to eat more healthy instead?

John. (Off Topic)
"But we've been meat eaters for thousands of years. Any tribe member too weak to kill an animal would have culled from the tribe early in life." Well thank god we live in 2009 then.

If your comments reeks with arrogance so will the replys.

(Sorry for the English)

Great article! What do I tell my bodybuilding Marine husband who thinks that Organic Meat is a waste of money??

Whilst i do believe that many forms of meat includes lots of protein, iron and other vitamins and minerals, i do not believe that it means it is right to go ahead and gorge on the flesh of what was a living thing… i mean human meat might be full of protein but do we eat it… no… and besides you can find all that is needed to live a largely successful and healthy life without meat..

So for all of you who read this article full of honest factual evidence.. just remember sometimes the easiest solution is not necessarily the most right. Einstein said it himself – "Vegetarian food leaves a deep impression on our nature. If the whole world adopts vegetarianism, it can change the destiny of humankind." Albert Einstein